SPEAKERS:

Ingrid Koeck and Ela Crain

Ela Crain  00:00

Welcome to Nonconventional. My name is Ela Crain and today I have Ingrid Koeck with me. Ingrid graduated from the University of Vienna with a master's degree in communication and political science. She's been with the UN for nine years, working in places like the Middle East and Africa. She has six years of journalism, publishing, public relations, and communication experience, as well as having edited a travel magazine. She is a partner at the award-winning prestige hotel "Terrell boutique hotel" in Porto, and she speaks German, English, French, and Portuguese. Welcome, Ingrid.

Ingrid Koeck  00:43

Ela, thank you so much for the invitation.

Ela Crain  00:45

Where did you begin your journey, where were you born, and was it your childhood dream to work at the UN or own a hotel?

Ingrid Koeck  01:08

In 1972, I was born in Austria. I grew up in a very rural, conservative country, and I had no idea that 49 years later, I would be sitting here with you today, talking about every chapter of my life. I grew up in a small village with a small family. I've always wanted to travel the world. My grandmother owned a bed and breakfast, which piqued my interest. So, I was not only living in this small village, but we had visitors from all over the world. They spoke in different languages, smelled different, and brought the big world to our small village. It was, I believe, very significant for me. I wanted to travel around the world, see the countries where these people came from, and learn for myself. That was a powerful motivator for me. I studied in Vienna and later worked in journalism. I wanted to be a war correspondent, but that didn't pan out. At the time, I was too shy to fight my way through. But I believe that life had other plans for me and that one thing led to another. So that's how it goes.

Ela Crain  02:34

That's intriguing because seeing the world is one thing that connects all the different chapters of your life: being in politics and working for the UN. And now, as a hotel chain partner, it's all about seeing the world through your passion and interest in people, which are linked by these chapters.

Ingrid Koeck  03:01

Absolutely. Curiosity, followed by courage, appears to be my life's main theme. This is a combination that overcomes my apprehension about embarking on new endeavors. So, for me, it's a combination of curiosity about the world and a desire to learn about people and their stories. This is something I've always wanted, whether as a journalist or later as a UN employee because what you do there, or what I did there, is translate people's stories. As a result, some actions could be taken to improve these people's lives. And what I do now is also tell a story, in different ways, but it's the red line that runs through my life. So, to speak, it is to tell stories but also to listen to stories because we are all storytellers. Everyone has a story to tell.

Ela Crain  04:06

How did you switch from journalism to working for the United Nations?

Ingrid Koeck  04:15

It's one of my life's patterns that something bad happens now and then, but this bad thing always brings something very good with it. My grandmother died in the summer of 2003, which is what I mean. My grandmother and mother had a big influence on me. They were both strong women who had an impact on my life. So, in a way, this was also the first time I seriously considered it. I don't mean this negatively. I believe it is very positive, very good, and very important that we are aware that we will no longer be on this planet one day. So that was my observation, and I read a lot about it because I needed to find a way to deal with all of my feelings and sadness about this loss. I realized I'm a big fan of Stoic philosophy, also known as memento mori. So, in essence, you are aware that when you die, you will reflect on how your life should have been. So, remembering my grandmother's face is a guiding principle for me. Her face was completely calm the last time I saw her. She was prepared, and I was thinking at the time that this is how I wanted to be when my time came, because we never know when I might fall out of the chair. I hope not, but this is beyond our control. But what I'm doing right now is under our control. This is when I consciously asked myself, "What do I still want to do?" I had a lot of ideas for things I wanted to do because I'm very curious. Sorry for the length of the story, but it's important to understand why I made the decision that I did. So, I pondered another question, which may sound a little negative, but I believe it is a very important question in life when you don't know what to do or where to go. I asked myself, "Who do I aspire to be like?" And, strange as it may sound, this question was extremely beneficial to me a lot. I was thinking that people who work abroad travel as a guide to themselves to understand what is missing in them or what they miss.

So, I arrived at this point, and I'd like to work in Africa because it's always been a big passion of mine. Not only to travel there but also to work and do good there. So, I remembered a course being held in Austria called "Mission Preparation Course for UN" admissions. I subscribed, they drove me there, and after four weeks, I knew right away that I was in the right place. Sometimes you don't understand why something feels right, but it just does, and you have to go for it. Shortly after this course, I received a phone call from the UN volunteer organization in Bonn, informing me that there had been a woman there who had conducted brief interviews with us. She invited me to an interview for a position as a political officer for the United Nations Mission in Burundi, Africa. I couldn't believe my dream was coming true so quickly. It was like a pleasant surprise. I completed the interview, and three weeks later, I boarded a plane bound for Bujumbura, Burundi's capital.

Ela Crain  08:29

So, thinking back to your grandmother's death, what do you think kept her calm in her final moments?

Ingrid Koeck  08:39

My grandmother had a lot of joy in her. My grandmother was born in Italy's northwestern region. As a result, when she was a girl, she had to relocate to Austria. She has faced adversity with a big sense of humor, or so I remember her. She accomplished a great deal in our community. She and her families were the first to own a car and a telephone. In many ways, she was ahead of her time. As a woman in her late 60s, she opened a bed and breakfast in Austria's countryside. This is a result of her inner strength. She was a very strong woman with whom I frequently disagreed. She was very stubborn, and I was a little bit stubborn as well, but I learned everything from her. She would not give up and would always go her way, always with a smile and a joke. She would always tell the same ten jokes, but she got the most joy from laughing at her jokes. And, I believe, this is a very important character trait: try not to take your own life too seriously.

Ela Crain  10:04

I feel a kinship with you there because my grandmother was a strong woman as well. In the 1930s and 1940s, she was the first CEO in Izmir, Turkey. As a character, she was very dominant; she managed 200 men at a time when women weren't even allowed to walk down the street alone. She had three marriages, two of which were to the same man. She was a real character, and there's a video of her talking to someone and telling them a story that you don't see. She was so captivating that the cameras zoomed in on her as she whispered the story in great detail. The room, you see, was crammed with people. There were probably 20 people there, and no one was breathing.

So, I'd like to ask you about your experience growing up with such strong female characters in your life. What impact did that have on you?

Ingrid Koeck  11:11

It demonstrated to me that, as a woman, you can shape your reaction to circumstances over which you have no control. This is due to my grandmother's marriage to an Austrian man. So, she didn't have a word for it, and she wasn't asked. My mother was also a very hardworking woman, which I learned from her. So, it's a lesson in resilience that I learned early on, but it's also a lesson in never giving up. Also, my grandmother always lived the same life as my mother, whereas I'm like zigzagging through life from one chapter to the next, with no idea what's going to happen next. The red line here, in my opinion, is not what you do, but how you do it. This is something I learned from my family and my upbringing: no matter what job you have or how simple your life is, you can live it and do it with dignity. This is something I later learned from Viktor Frankl's book. It's amazing how he describes how we act in difficult situations. This demonstrates who we are, and for me, I saw a lot of challenges, as everyone does, but it's not whether we survive it, but how we do it and how we get out of it, whether we learn a lesson from it, grow and move on, or become harder and closer, which I never wanted. I didn't want anyone to let this happen to me. I wanted to become more open, and I hope to become even more open as more things happen to me, but this should not harm me.

Ela Crain  13:23

I can see how shaping your reaction influenced your life. If you remember Viktor Frankl's philosophy, he once said, "They could take anything away from me except my interpretation of events or my reaction to events, and that's so beautiful." If you have, it's such a fundamental belief that I can see your journey being shaped by it, because whatever you do, whether it's working for the United Nations or going for war correspondence, it's all about controlling your reaction to what's going on around you.

Ingrid Koeck  14:11

Fear has no hope. I'm not saying I'm not afraid; I am, and when I embarked on new adventures, such as going and working for the UN, I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I was so naive, and I'm currently laughing at my younger self. I did it despite my fear because my curiosity was stronger. This is the point because this is what it means to have the courage to pursue something for which you have no idea of the outcome. At the end of the day, we never know what will happen. We're always curious, but we don't know. But it's also as if we knew it would dull the luster of our own lives. This is a point in time when you changed your life several times. So far, this has been exhilarating, exciting, and nerve-racking. Everything is falling into place. There are many emotions, but it's an amazing time when transformation and change are taking place and your heart is racing all the time. You're scared, but you go anyway because you believe this is where you should go next.

Ela Crain  15:28

Sometimes we think we know what will happen, but we don't. So, when you reflect on your work at the UN, what makes you smile at your younger self?

Ingrid Koeck  15:47

Because of the possibility of being recruited, I was overjoyed. When I first walked into the UN office, I thought they'd made a mistake. But, of course, I was overjoyed, and I recall sitting on the plane from Amsterdam to Nairobi, smiling and looking around. "I'll take care of Africa," I said. It was a combination of feelings and passion. So, I'm smiling at my younger self, but I also believe it's important to maintain this attitude because I was full of passion and wanted to make a difference. I still want to make a difference, and I'm glad I accepted this challenge. But, of course, I couldn't predict what would happen. I had an idea of how it would be, but the reality is very different. So, I walked into the office for the first time. It's a whole new world. That was thrilling, and then you go, one step after the other.

Ela Crain  17:18

What was the first thing you did after landing, and how did you deal with culture shock?

Ingrid Koeck  17:25

I was dropped into Sub-Saharan Africa, where we rolled and shipped to a hotel. So, the next day, go to work. I work there with a few other UN volunteers whose schedules vary. I come from a very organized country, Austria. As a result, when I arrived at a place like the United Nations, I expected to find a desk with a laptop and a phone waiting for me. Of course, a young missionary in the hitches open isn't like that. So, I was in an office with the mission doctor and a few others. Everything had been put together. But this is also the excitement of a new mission, which you can shape, and I was there with my boss. You begin meeting politicians because I was a political officer, writing reports, attending meetings, and collaborating closely with all aspects of the mission. This was completely out of my league. I'd never done anything like this before, but for some reason, I felt like a fish in water. I'm not sure why I was there. My first job is only for three months. In three months, what can happen? Even if I despise it, I go home because I know it's not for me. So, I had the option of ending this chapter or continuing it.

Ela Crain  19:01

How long were you there?

Ingrid Koeck  19:03

Well, it went from three months to nine years.

Ela Crain  19:07

Did you spend most of your time in Africa during those nine years, or did you travel?

Ingrid Koeck  19:12

I worked in Burundi for almost two years before moving to the Democratic Republic of the Congo for two years. That was the best time of my life. It was fantastic. Then I was transferred to the Somalia mission. We worked in Kenya but also went to Somalia. Then I took a brief hiatus and spent two years in Lebanon.

Ela Crain  19:35

What made the Congo so unique?

Ingrid Koeck  19:40

Because I was working in the bush, working in Congo was a true dream come true for me. There was no electricity in the house when I arrived. I had to wash with cold water for months before I could fix the house. But this was not the case if I left my house. It was authentic Africa. It wasn't like going to the office in the capital to only meet other UN employees; instead, you had daily contact with people from that area. There was the district commissioner, a police officer, Mr. Journalist, and everyone else. I enjoy hearing people's stories because, as an African proverb goes, "you have one mouth to speak but two ears to listen." The key point is to listen. Then you find out things that aren't just about you at the time. I didn't see myself solely as a political officer, which is my job, but as a human being, which is something I learned in Africa. The word "Ubuntu" is a lovely one. It refers to "our common humanity." It was something I was interested in. Those years taught me a lot, not only about the places I visited but also about myself. Travel is about discovering who you are on the inside.

Ela Crain  21:33

As you travel away from your usual route.

Ingrid Koeck  21:37

It was interesting not only to learn from someone I spoke with as a function but also to understand the circumstances surrounding the person's departure, what was going on because this helps you understand why people do what they do. That was an incredible time in my life. I had a great time and learned a lot.

Ela Crain  22:05

How have these nine years shaped you as a person? What would Ingrid be like right now if she never made it to Africa?

Ingrid Koeck  22:17

Ingrid would be a completely different person. I'm thankful for where I was born. I can sit here with you and discuss your life options. 90% of people on this planet do not have the option to live a different life; they do not have the option to choose. This is something I was not aware of previously. I was in my little European world. I believe we are overly concerned with ourselves, and while introspection is valuable, I believe we must not lose sight of our place in the world, in the larger system. My problems are insignificant in comparison to the luxury issues we discussed. So, in my opinion, we are extremely fortunate to have been born. The fact that we are born here means that we can make choices, but we also have a responsibility to those who do not have this luxury. I'm referring to a woman in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. She goes out of her hat in the morning with three children to pick vegetables, not knowing if she will return raped or alive, and she continues to do so. She's not sure if she'll be able to feed her children or if she'll have to boil stones. As a result, her children will fall asleep before they get hungry. I would be a different person if I hadn't gone through that, but I believe that when we complain about our lives, we should take a step back and say, "Come on, we're living in a lot of luxury." So, for me, the people I admire are precisely those who, despite knowing that their lives will never change, go about their daily lives with the utmost dignity every single day.

Ela Crain  24:40

We are experiencing option paralysis. We have so many options nearby that we can't decide which car to buy. We have no idea which job to take. We don't know which masters to do, and this becomes a problem for us.

Ingrid Koeck  24:54

Exactly. I fully agree.

Ela Crain  24:55

So, thank you for reminding us of the courage and importance of making a decision and following through on it. If the past changes, you change your plans in the same way you have all your life.

Ingrid Koeck  25:08

You must modify your strategy to account for the realities of the situation.

Ela Crain  25:12

What happened at the UN after nine years that caused you to reconsider your plans?

Ingrid Koeck  25:21

Working for the United Nations and having incredible experiences was a dream come true for me. I felt that after a while, which was great at the time, but I've since changed my mind. So, either I need a new experience or my life must change. I yearned to return to Europe. I am very passionate about Europe and its philosophy and ideals. My dream was to open a small bed and breakfast near where I grew up. I aspired to run my own business. I had been working for other people up until that point. I wanted to do things my way, even if they were small things because I wanted to shape my own life and do this. So, I was thinking about where I wanted to settle down, and I knew it had to be somewhere in southern Europe, but I couldn't quite pin it down. So, it's going through my head, and then I remember that 20 years ago when I was a Porto girl, my heart began to beat, so this is it.

Ela Crain  26:57

Something you remembered about Portugal made your heart skip a beat.

Ingrid Koeck  27:05

It was also something particular. I was looking over a list of countries. There was no response, but Portugal was unique. I was born in a landlocked country. So, the sea is something very exotic to us, as well as something a little luxurious and exclusive. When we go on vacation, we only see the sea. I recall being in Portugal at the time. We were staying at the house on the cliff at the time, which had a huge window overlooking the Atlantic. And for some reason, this image stayed with me in my mind and soul. So, I came here twice in 2014 to see if this was the country where I would write the next chapter of my life.

Ela Crain  28:14

Did you ever consider opening a bed and breakfast?

Ingrid Koeck  28:18

Yes, I wanted to do a bed and breakfast because that's what I thought would give me some security in a foreign country. But, of course, I had no idea that five or six years later I'd have four hotels; that was not the plan. It was a different thought at first, but one thing led to another.

Ela Crain  28:44

It's amazing how we make these circles from childhood to adulthood, but to the same point, you were looking out for your grandmother and her bed and breakfast and now you have a hotel chain. It is the same thing you were looking for. For me, it's amusing to recall my dominant grandmother, and I spent a lot of time listening to both my grandmother and grandfather because they were both dominant personalities who argued a lot. So, I sat and listened to whatever they were saying, and this became my profession. So, there's a pattern of life going in circles until we find our life's purpose or that thing that moves our hearts.

Ingrid Koeck  29:31

Absolutely.

Ela Crain  29:34

How does your love of people shine through the hotels?

Ingrid Koeck  29:45

Whether it's a small bed and breakfast or a five-star hotel, I think the concept of hospitality is fantastic. Hospitality includes service, which is the ability to connect with another human being, and this is the essence of hospitality when we talk about it. It's something I'm extremely passionate about because of the storytelling aspects of our hotels. We have a lot of stories to tell. Through our hotels, we are telling the story of Portugal. We're telling the story of how we ended up here. In each hotel, we have a unique concept. Each room has a distinct theme. So, we have a lot of stories we want to tell. It's not just our stories; everyone who comes has one. This is where these ideas come together because it's all about connection. So, whoever chooses our hotels does so for a reason. If all you want to do is sleep in a bed, you can go wherever you want, but we have a very unique concept. And a lot of the decisions we make in life are about our sense of identity and belonging. This is something where I cannot solve the world's or a person's problems, but I can bring some beauty and poetry into the world and perhaps give people a break from this difficult world through this beauty and poetry so that they experience something in themselves again.

Ela Crain  31:40

How has your experience with the United Nations influenced your approach to the hotel business?

Ingrid Koeck  31:48

They're two completely different things on the outside. But, of course, it provided me with valuable work experience and the opportunity to meet people from all walks of life. What is important, I believe, is that there is respect for everyone, regardless of where they come from, what their background is, why they are visiting, or what they want, but it is also the diversity that we celebrate. It's a very important topic nowadays, and everyone should be free to be themselves. I want everyone to be content. We are creating spaces for you to connect with yourself and with us, as well as space for you to enjoy, breathe, and be yourself, possibly recognizing a new side of yourself. And, of course, coming from a world where I meet people from all over the world and from various backgrounds every day, it's very easy for me now to talk with different people, which I thoroughly enjoy.

Ela Crain  33:23

I believe that giving space is an important part of your adventures. When you were in Africa, it sounded like you were going to that space in the country but being with whatever, you were given and whoever you were thrown in with in the same room, and now allowing people in the hotel business to experience the spaciousness that you're providing for them to maybe take a risk, contemplate, and rediscover something. What is your relationship like with the space we're discussing?

Ingrid Koeck  34:01

I believe the hotel is essentially a shelter. So, it's one of the oldest architectural concepts; people used to build caves to protect themselves from the rain. The hotel is a temporary shelter, and it is now much more modern, with many amenities and luxury. At the end of the day, this is what it is, and space is about more than just finding a place; it is also about how a space makes you feel. We want you to feel a sense of belonging and a connection to Porto, Lisbon, and Portugal because good architecture and design should reflect the environments in which they are immersed. As a result, we want to inform our visitors about the community in which we are located. For example, the majority of our materials are natural materials from Portugal. And when you enter one of our hotels, you should have the impression that you are in Portugal. You couldn't be anywhere else because it's portable and we want you to connect with the location. This is something for people who want to have a genuine experience because this is what good hospitality is nowadays. It uses community insights to connect guests with the community.

Ela Crain  35:54

Is it true that the Toro Hotel has a blind restaurant?

Ingrid Koeck  35:59

Yes, that is correct. That is the name of our blind restaurant at Torel Palace Porto.

Ela Crain  36:03

Could you explain the concept?

Ingrid Koeck  36:07

The Torel Palace Porto is a literary museum dedicated to Portuguese writers. As a result, each room is named after a Portuguese author. We named the restaurant "blind" in honor of Josie Saramago and his novel "blindness." As a result, the space is completely black, and our menu, which we call the blind emotion, is a menu for all senses, not just the eyes. So, you have eight or ten moments, and it's a truly unique experience that should guide you through. It's a uniquely Portuguese experience with international undertones.

Ela Crain  36:57

So far, what kind of feedback have you received from customers who dined in a completely black restaurant? That must be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

Ingrid Koeck  37:06

It's not completely dark, but the restaurant is dark on its own because when the first movie based on the book, "Blindness," was presented in a can, the space of the blind was dark, much like a movie theatre. As a result, there are several references to it. It's dark, but there's also some gold and white decor. It's a very elegant setting. That is something you remember hearing, listening to, and smelling. This experience stimulates all of your senses. We've received excellent feedback.

Ela Crain  37:58

The website describes itself as a place where artists can "fully live." What is your hotel chain's relationship with art?

Ingrid Koeck  38:09

We wanted to honor the city of Porto, which is rich in architecture and design, with our first hotel in Porto, Hotel Torel Avantgarde. As a result, we chose to dedicate the Avant-Garde artists, both international and Portuguese. Each room is named after an avant-garde artist. You have Leonardo da Vinci, who was avant-garde even before the term was coined, but he is simply one of the most amazing artists of all time. You have Portuguese from various walks of life, such as Colombiano Bordallo Pinedo, Medea Sousa Cardoso, Coco Chanel, and Amadeus Mozart, as well as writers, poets, musicians, and architects. So, we wanted to honor creativity, and the way we did it was not only to honor all of these artists but also in the way we created the space, we gave our designers complete freedom. We wanted to create an avant-garde environment. So, for example, we have a room called "the flower room," which is absurd. It's made entirely of silk flowers and is a one-of-a-kind item. When I first saw it, I thought to myself, "Let's see what happens. It's our biggest success, but it also means we're not your typical hotel chain." We are a group of hotels that tell the story of Portugal through its spaces but in new and sometimes unexpected ways.

Ela Crain  40:08

How do you envision the expansion of your hotel chain? Is there anything in particular that you'd like to see covered in a new chapter?

Ingrid Koeck  40:21

I'm not sure. The only thing I know for certain is that change will always be a part of my life. So, without a doubt, some change will occur at some point. At the moment, I'm overjoyed to be completely immersed in our incredible projects. We intend to grow a little bit, but it's a little early to talk about that. We have a few projects in the works, all of which are very exciting. I'm overjoyed because I'm in charge of group communication, which is becoming increasingly interesting. We now have new experiences as a result of the new spaces. For me, I'm not sure what the next chapter of my life will entail. Watty, a very traditional person in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan, could be the culprit. He is the person who captures his audience because he has a fantastic ability to tell stories in a great way and keeps them captivated at his lips with cliffhangers. So, I'm not sure what the next chapter of my life's storytelling experience will be for me. Anything is possible. Maybe I'll stay for a long time. Maybe I'll do a complete 180-degree turn.

Ela Crain  42:09

What would you say to those who are stuck, need a little encouragement, or are facing a big change in their life that they are not willing to jump into, as someone who is so comfortable with ambiguity and welcomes change with open arms?

Ingrid Koeck  42:29

To be honest, I'm not sure I can offer any advice.

Ela Crain  42:32

How would you handle such changes if you were in a similar situation?

Ingrid Koeck  42:37

Change comes naturally to me. I'm aware that it's simple for me because I'm having so many conversations about it. I'm a change agent. I believe that many people have a strong sense of security or a need for security, which makes jumping off the cliff so difficult. I can only say that it isn't the end of the world. When you try something new, you must be willing to take a risk. To me, as long as you try, you are already successful. I've done a lot of things in my life that didn't work out, whether they worked out or not. I need to try, whether it works or not, and then something else will come. Even if this does not work out, it had to be done this way. It will lead you to something else, but you must trust yourself to do so.

Ela Crain  44:01

I liked what you said earlier about being curious and overcoming fear. That appears to be a critical lesson in this case.

Ingrid Koeck  44:09

I once read that courage is like a muscle that only grows when used. You can't make a big leap if you've never made a small leap. The first step leads to the next. I can't make a rash decision today if I've never dared to prepare for it before. So, I'm not sure what advice I can give you other than to trust yourself.

Ela Crain  44:39

Thank you so much for your time, Ingrid. I value our conversation and your openness. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Ingrid Koeck  44:48

You're very welcome. Thank you so much for inviting me.